83 Responses to “du Mont-Blanc USA vs. Europeans”

1. Hart Says:
   August 23rd, 2007 at 10:10 pm

   sweet.. go karl!

2. Brian M Says:
   August 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 pm

   awesome! im sending karl positive vibes. thanks for giving us updates! we appreciate it

3. wtd Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 8:15 am

   What time does this thing start? Good luck WSG.

4. Markus Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 8:53 am

   Thanks Scott for the updates.

   I know only Jens Lukas from Germany, he is one of the world best 24h racers and 3 time winner of the Spartathlon.
   Ultramountain racing and 100 mile racing in general is pretty new to Europe
   so I reckon that nobody has a chance against the US runners.

   I think they will crash the course record.
   Keep going Karl

   Markus

5. olga Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 9:21 am

   Best of luck everybody, go get ‘em!

6. MC Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 9:47 am

   Where on the website do you click on for updates or placement of runners?
   My French is rusty, merci!

7. Sam Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 11:31 am

   Karl,

   Show them what us New World SpeedGoats are made of!!

8. Mom and "Old" Goat Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 11:52 am

   Check out this way of tracking the race:
   1. go to main website http://www.ultratrailmb.com
   2. click on FOLLOW RACE IN LIVE
   3. click on TABLEAU PASSAGES and thenTOUR DU MONT BLANC
   4. click on kilometers, they are listed ascending order.
   You will then see a list of the aid stations and it will also give you the positions of the runners.

   If anyone know of a better way, please let us know. I can’t figure out the Google Earth way of doing it.

   GO KARL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9. VDV Says:
   August 24th, 2007 at 11:59 am

   Live website: http://live.ultratrailmb.com/

10. zacH Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    Scott

    The 3755 # is not bringing anything up on the page. I’ve got Karl’s race # @2771, Scott’s @ 3612, and Hal’s @ 3583. Just put the # in the box and hit the French button version of enter and it brings up there info. Right now they’re all together in the top 8.

11. Billy Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

    Karl……you’re the baddest goat in europe this weekend……..run hard my brother….

12. cb Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    I’m using:

    http://live.ultratrailmb.com/tetecourse.php

    (head of the race)

    This shows the top 10. Just hit your refresh button whenever you want an update. Looks like a close one so far! Nikki has taken a good lead as well for the women.

13. Kendra B. Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    Go NIKKI! First woman by a humongous margin, 41st overall as of 3:45 pm rocky mountain time!

    And go men! yee haw!

14. Jon Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 3:58 pm

    Dean’s really going to have to pick up the pace if he wants to win this thing. He’s the favorite isn’t he?

15. Bob Gentile Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 4:47 pm

    WOW Thanks Scott and others on helping us follow along…

    GO USA BABY!!!

16. Billy Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 4:48 pm

    i’m laughing my arse off on the dean comment……thanks jon, i was thinking the same thing…..go karl, dig deep……….

17. wynn Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    Red the head like the dick on a dog!!!! GOATBOY is diggin the hooves in! Watchin Mermoud take the bait and then Goatboy will go to the familiar wheel house and clickty clack his hooves over the Mts. USA men and Women are looking mighty spry!! hold on to yer seats! ya never know

    wie wie bah bah

18. Kelly S. Nichols Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    I feel the same way about Karl Meltzer and Scott Jurek as you do about Dean. So I guess this makes us even.

19. WSG Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    Wynn,

    I can’t wait to meet your crazy ass next year at the Wasatchspeedgoat 50k 7/26/07!

    WSG

20. WSG Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    – is upset about Dean?

    # Jon Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 3:58 pm e

    Dean’s really going to have to pick up the pace if he wants to win this thing. He’s the favorite isn’t he?

21. Scott Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    What a race. Way to go USofA. Mermoud is hanging tough but a long way to go. Looks like Nikki just has to stay upright the rest of the way.

    Is that Memphis Billy posting?

    I believe this is the part where KSN starts with the college running business.

22. zacH Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    I would imagine Dean’s agent has him stopping to pose for pics with the fans at each aid. I’m sure he’s on pace to finish under the cut off time.

    As for Karl, Hal, and Scott, god knows whats streaming through their minds. There’s still alot of racing left. Keep Hoovin’–Bahah, Baahhaaahhh, Bitches!!

23. Jon Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 9:59 pm

    Thanks for the Dean update, even though it was a bit obscure. He’s going to pull this one off; afterall, I saw him on the cover of a magazine. Get with it guys, this guy has even written a book.

24. Sean Cunniff Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    Strong work Meltzer!!!

    Baahhhhhhhhahahahahhhhhhhh!

25. Bob Gentile Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 11:05 pm

    Scott Said:I believe this is the part where KSN starts with the college running business.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    LOLOLOL ya was just thinking that myself … hopefully she is sleeping

    GO USA … GO non-college runners USA

26. Rich B Says:
    August 24th, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    Looks like Koerner and Jurek are lost?

27. WSG Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 12:37 am

    GO USA - non-college runners! She is sleeping thinking of Dean ! yeaks

    Jurker and Koerner are fading out of the scene, Karl is our only hope!!

    Bahahaah go Speedgoat, he learned to run at the Wasatch Mountain COLLEGE!

28. Roger Skaggs Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 1:15 am

    Did Hal & Scott and a bunch of others take a wrong turn??

29. zacH Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 2:01 am

    race dosen’t start until “La Fouly” Lets go Karl!!!!! Head down and horns out, full steam ahead.

30. Peter Lubbers Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 2:45 am

    Looks like it is close at Champex, with Karl in 3rd just a minute behind Olmo and with a nice climb up ahead:)
    The Google Earth race is pretty cool (I think they only handed out the GPS trackers at Fouly). I can see Olmo and Mermaud (looks like Olmo is actually in the lead now), but I don’t think Karl’s GPS chip is working, because his position is not showing up in the right place (yet).
    Good luck Karl!

31. Billy Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:42 am

    dean must have stopped to get a wax and full body glossing for the photographers and it is obviosly helping his aerodynamics……karl, crank up the tunes brah, your almost to the barn……………dig ,dig,dig……

32. Billy Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 6:02 am

    scott, yea, it’s memphis billy here with elvis……….elvis is taking karl 3 to 1

33. zacH Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 7:14 am

    Man, everything was looking good last night. Sure didn’t want to wake up to this.

34. tp Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 7:59 am

    Has Karl dropped? It says ” arrete” under his place.

35. Bob Gentile Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:03 am

    I agree with Zach didn’t want to wake up to this..Oh well that’s why they play the game… NIKKI still kicking some major ASS though…way to go NK!

    OLMO is one strong MOFO — lol

36. Bob Gentile Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:08 am

    PS: Just looked Marco OLMO up a little bit….geesh 59 years young—friggin amazing, what kinda pasta does he eat…i want sum

37. Hart Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:17 am

    just got up and this ruined my day.. cascade crest 100 (http://www.cascadecrest100.com/) is today. i’m pacing jamie gifford - should be a blast.

38. BFish Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:19 am

    Hang tough Karl. And way to go Ryan Cooper… slowly moving up the ranks to 29th!

39. Brad G. Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:35 am

    It would seem that Hal and Scott might have DNF’d about midway. The live update said both had stopped at Courmayeur along with a few others. I wonder what happened?

40. Dave Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 8:37 am

    Great run by Karl! Also notable is Topher Gaylord (20th) who’s run a number of races - and runs with Dean. Nikki at 24th. Peter Bakwin was 43rd. Dean was 54th.

41. Bob Gentile Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am

    hmmm Anyone know if CCC100 is doing any LIVE updates ??

    I don’t see anything on their site :-B

    Thanks

42. Rogue Runner Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 10:51 am

    Hey all…here is what Hal sent me about the race this morning…word for word…another race in another country with different rules, techniques and trails…a huge learning curve. -Ian Torrence

    “well, I guess there is a learning curve for this race. We just watched a
    60 year-old man devour the course and have yet to see the second place
    finisher.

    The course was as billed, yet I believe we all overlooked the eurocentric
    nature of it. Running through the night for me was a daunting task,
    especially when you combine the enormous descents (no switchbacks, straight
    down!) Into the 50k mark I think I slid most of the 5k descent and thought
    for sure I was going to end up like Bo Jackson, I’ll have to see how my
    hips hold up. Knowing this course is the crux, we watched countless euros
    cut the course and the switchbacks, up and down. Not so bad in the light,
    but at night impossible to follow.

    Scott bowed at a few minutes after Carly and I tried walking out of
    Courmeyer but I had nothing left and with my knee’s on fire I shortly
    followed suit. Rather dissapointing, but the mountains we were able to
    traverse made it the most amazing course I have been on. The atmosphere is
    on par with the Tour and running through the early towns could only be
    described as “uplifting.”

    We went on a little to watch Karl, but he has certainly faded proving that
    we all overlooked the difficulty of this race. This would be one to solely
    focus for.

    I wanted to let you know that besides destroyed legs we are ok and we’ll
    talk as soon as possible. KarL has a phone and I’ll get on that as soon as
    he finishes.

    talk soon………”

43. Billy Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am

    i’m crawling back into my cave now……………well, it’s kinda like steve prefontaine…….the boys don’t run for 2nd……..and sometimes for that, you pay the price…..great effort……….

44. Dave Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 11:40 am

    uh-oh - looks like Karl stopped. The GPS tracking hasn’t had him moving in quite a while and a lot of people are coming in and out of the checkpoint that he stalled at.

    As I type, the top 16 have finished - and barring something dire, Nikki Kimball will finish soon as top woman.

45. froggy Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Hi
    where are the champions ?
    I only see KARNAZES Dean arrived 47 !
    and KIMBALL Nikki 1 st !!!

46. Scott Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    No doubt these guys race a strategy I know nothing about, run at the front to win or die trying. I’m happy to make up a few places in the final miles and sneak into the top 10 once in a while. It was entertaining guys, thanks for show.

    Nice running Kimball, Gaylord and Karnazes. IMHO, the Dean bashing is pointless.

47. Hart Says:
    August 25th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    Cascade Crest 100 Miler Endurance Run -

    i’ll be sending text messages to my blog as updates on the race happenings. hopefully i’ll have good service and the updates will be frequent. - http://coachingendurance.com/blog/blog.shtml

    so far:
    tom chapman is leading
    darcy africa is leading for woman

48. Larry Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Looks like our American hopes were dashed just like in basketball. We knew there were tough Euros out there, but none of us saw our top three big dogs dropping out like little puppies. In with a bark, out with a wimper.

    Dean proves that experience and toughness can win out over speed and good looks, sorry Scott.

    Hope the boys all had fun traveling Europe and apparently drinking too much good beer! Cheers for a good first attempt.

49. WSG Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 1:33 pm

    Tough to see all three big dogs go down, I didn’t think any one even could have predicted such a outcome! Way to go Dean! He must be licking his chops after that race!

50. Brennen Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 5:08 pm

    “Dean proves that experience and toughness can win out over speed and good looks, sorry Scott.”

    Sorry, Larry, I don’t see it that way at all. It would be silly to question Scott’s or Karl’s experience versus that of Dean’s. Methinks all three of them have run plenty enough to know most of the ins and outs of the ultra distance.

    And as far as good looks, that’s subjective–and really has nothing to do with the outcome of the race either way.

    One could claim Dean was competitive in this race, yet he was at least fourth among the Americans, and the Americans proved a small contingent in the overall field.

    Beyond that, the demands of being competitive in the top ten of a race like Tour du Mont Blanc are what most of us can only imagine (myself included; and believe me, I did a lot of imagining as I followed it well into the night Friday).

    Dean was obviously not out to win this race; he wanted to finish and to the best of his ability. Did he push himself outside a comfort zone that might cause deeper questions of finishing or not? Only he can answer that.

    But people drop in an ultra for any number of reason–Jurek himself has already posted on his blog what motivated him. One may or may not agree with a paritcular runner’s motivation for dropping, but it seems futile to make comparisons between those who finish and those who don’t in terms of who “won.”

    Brennen

51. AJW Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    It was great to get Hal’s report and I am obviously interested in the cultural side of the whole thing. Clearly, it is a beautiful place and a really tough race. All that said, the fact that three of our sport’s superstars took the challenge, to me, is awesome!

    AJW

52. CoLLeeN Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    What do you mean American hopes dashed? Nikki ROCKED…what an achievement! As for the speedgoat boys, they rocked too! Can’t wait to hear the details.

53. Brad G. Says:
    August 26th, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    I’m not sure that this result is very surprising. The Euros have been skiing, running and riding well in the high mountains since waaay back. It’s pretty arrogant to assume we could just waltz over there and beat everyone at their toughest race on their own turf (and on their own terms). I’m sure we won’t make that mistake again.

    Here’s to next year!!!

54. bazzo Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 1:40 am

    Hi American friend, Ultratrail mont blanc is only for european affair!! With compliments for your partecipation,but Marco Olmo ( 59 year old) is great!

55. Samantha Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 6:07 am

    At first I was pretty happy so many good Americans were entering this race and was looking forward to a real show down. But I got a bit sick of reading how they were thinking of this race as if they could waltz in and take the record and it got really tiring and frankly it was that ‘ugly American’ thing all over again. If you haven’t guessed it, I am one of a bunch of Americans who live here in Chamonix.

    So, I am glad to see the ‘GO USA’ type of arrogance finally was dashed against the rocks of the Alps. Come back again a little more humble boys, and maybe you will be able to make some type of a showing. Listen to the people around here, and do a little training on the course. Try to relate to the other athletes as ‘people’ and not just ‘Euros’ or ‘French’ or whatever you think of them as. Try to get a feel for what it’s all about before you start shooting your mouths off.

    I didn’t hear any gossip in town about Nikki Kimball bragging before the race like I did about the USA boys. She just put her head down and did it. It’s typical American male arrogance to think that anything east of the Rockies can’t possibly be ‘hardcore’ and imagine that they’ll walk all over the race. Well, it spanked ‘em and spanked ‘em good. Eat a serving of humble pie.

    You got beaten by a 59 year old Italian, a German in his 40s, and a Frenchman in his 40s (1,2 and 3). So there. I am tired of reading all the bloggy whining about ‘Ewww, it’s soo steep’ and ‘oh there are no switchbacks’. What do you friggin’ expect in the capital of extreme skiing and mountaineering, exactly? By the way - there ARE in fact switchbacks on many of the descents (but if you only run 1/2 the race I guess you don’t get to see all of them). And all that endless whining about how ‘we can’t have pacers’ and other crap because you have to be self sufficient and find it in yourself to run the whole race … Sheesh. And we all thought the French were just a bunch of garlic and cheese eating surrender monkeys, eh? Not quite.

    At least Dean had the guts to finish the whole race this time (it’s his at least 3rd try I believe and he dropped out 2 other times), which is more than I can say for the others who dropped out when they realized they could not live up to their bragging. I thought that was very bad sportsmanship, actually, no matter how you slice or dice it. To find out people dropped out w/o a real race injury was a major disappointment to me as an American - I’d have rather felt I was from the ‘home of the brave’ and had many strong finishers, even further down the pack - rather than find we are represented by the ones who brag and then run away to hide when they realize they can’t live up to their bragging and don’t have the ego to say ‘yep, today I was beaten, I will come back and try again’.

    And while you think that ‘ultramarathoning’ might be ‘new’ in Europe (it’s not actually), the sport of mountaineering was INVENTED here, as well as the profession of mountain guiding. Trying to go fast in the high mountains is something Europeans have been doing for a long time - they just usually didn’t wear running shoes to do it or call it a ‘race’. But setting records for faster and faster ascents of peaks around here is a major pasttime for the guiding community.

    By the way, what a short shrift is being given to a fantastic athlete - Nikki Kimball BEAT EVERY OTHER AMERICAN IN THE RACE INCLUDING TOPHER GAYLORD AND DEAN KARNAZES (and of course the ones who dropped out). I am a bit tired of people looking only as ’she won the woman’s race’ - she came in 19th SCRATCH and beat most boys (and ALL AMERICAN BOYS) ASSES to the ground! Go GIRL!

56. WSG Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 6:23 am

    Bazzo, OLMO and the boys are incredible !

    Thanks for the notes Samantha - It is great to here from an American in the Alps or where ever you are! Have you run Mt. Blanc yet?

57. Julian Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 6:58 am

    Samantha hits this one right on the nail. The arrogance of the american guys did not go down well here, their behaviour on the start line was not worthy of top athletes and they need to take a more humble approach to this race. The vast majority of the participants are not out to make a time, it’s a MAJOR achievement to just complete the course in less than 46 hours. The whole fact about this race is purity, no prize money, a fantastic organisation and thousands of ordinary people cheering on every competitor from the first to the last, please come next time with a little more humility and try to enter into the spirit of this event. Congratulations to Nikki Kimball for a superb performance.

58. Jeff Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 8:57 am

    Scott and Karl are not arrogant. Whats wrong with being a ‘GO USA’ type as Samantha would say. I like to cheer for fellow Americans. Is there something wrong with that? We are no more arrogant than people from other countries cheering on their fellow country man. I think Samantha has some underlying issues that she needs to see a therapist about.

    As sad as it was to see the top american men drop it was pretty cool to see a man that is almost 60 win this thing. My hat goes off to him. Gives me hope that I have a few good years left. And it was also cool to see Nikki Kimball to so well. She is an amazing athlete.

59. Fast Eddy Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 9:10 am

    Samatha, WOW! What a lashing!! Did you actually hear any of the “top” Americans say they were going to trounce the “EUROS”? Or could it have possibly been the media hype? I have never heard Karl, Scott, nor Hal talk that way. They each approach every race to give it their best and some days it just isn’t there. Your comments go against everything that these guys stand for and Ultra running in AMERICA.

    I’m sorry Samatha but you have a chip on your shoulders that is much, much deeper than just ultra running…

    Let’s all give a shout out to the Cooper’s - Ryan and Lori! Ryan ran a very smart race finishing (correct me if I’m wrong) top American?? And Lori finishing in the top 10 for women!

60. Brad G. Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 9:11 am

    Samantha,

    I think you make some excellent points. I would like to point out that from my perspective the bragging was coming from the ultrarunning community, not the runners themselves. In every pre-race interview I saw or heard there was at most cautious optimism expressed by “the boys”. As this was not a target race for most, pulling out to save themselves for future efforts while perhaps not the height of bravery was a smart tactical move. Not the stuff of adventure novels but we’re each running our own race.

61. Samantha Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 9:30 am

    Hi WSG,

    As mentioned, I do live in Chamonix. I have lived here for 6 years. I left the US when Bush took over, and basically have been pretty happy to be out of there every time I go back for a visit or turn on the world news.

    My name is not Samantha, but I believe I have the right to choose a screen name for posting to blogs. It’s a small town here and my comments are not exactly ‘rah rah’ are they?

    I am not any type of major athlete, nor do I pretend to be. I am ‘one of the many’ who enter races to say they’ve done them, with no hope of winning and basically to try to do a personal best. I do enjoy the outdoors and mountain sports. I ski and rock climb here and run trails a bit as well as hike, snow shoe and ski tour.

    No, I have not run Mt. Blanc (4810m). Actually people climb it or ski it as it’s covered in ice and snow. In 1990, the Swiss Pierre-André Gobet, leaving from Chamonix, completed the ascent and descent in 5 hours, 10 minutes and 14 seconds (an amazing feat). No one normally comes close to that. Normally it’s a 20 hour day to climb the peak leaving from one of the higher huts.

    I have however run a few trail races in the area and I have done the 86km North Face Courmayeur-Champex-Chamonix race last year and again this year (which we English speaking locals now refer to as the ‘Fun Run’).

    This race happens the same weekend as the UTMB and takes off at noon on Friday from Courmayeur and it has a 24 hour time limit and 4500m of uphill/downhill (14,764 ft). We generally finish in time to take a shower, have a nap, and see the first guys come over the finish for the UTMB that afternoon. Finishers of the big race continue to come in all through the night and into the following day. I have friends who do the big race as well, though most of my friends do the smaller one.

    For the Fun Run, I train using chunks of the entire Tour du Mont Blanc hiking trail as my long runs, up to 42km at a time. It’s also a popular hiking trail where we take friends and family who visit, as well as hiking clients. So I am familiar with the whole UTMB course.

    Today they interviewed on the radio the last place finisher (a French woman) who was on the course for the full allotted 46 hours. They treated her like a hero as well because she had the guts to stick it out. This course is very much about finishing it, not only winning it.

    I sat at the dinner last night - the closing dinner for the two races - with several other runners from the US and UK.

    I saw the winner Marco Olmo at a table with his family, eating and occaisionally being congratulated by one or two people (but not mobbed - very low key). I also saw Dawa Sherpa sitting with his family, and as he passed by our table and wished us ‘bon appetite’. Many of the top finishers were there at the dinner, as well as many of the ‘just managed to finish’ finishers were there. I didn’t notice any of the top American runners but it was a big room - I could have missed them.

    There were no speeches or grandstanding - just a film showing some bits of the race on a screen above us including shots of the first four UTMB finishers coming over the line in Chamonix.

    But mainly it was just a bunch of people talking together about the races they’d done (CCC or UTMB or other various race experiences), how many blisters they had, what injuries they sustained, what were their favorite or most hated bits of the race, and what kinds of food they could or could not stomach during the race - all while drinking some good wine and eating some great food provided by the race organizers.

    Both of these races are an excellent trail running experience if you are open to having it. I highly recommend doing either race, and either arriving a week early or staying in town a bit after as well to get to see the full beauty of these mountains in the daylight.

62. Samantha Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 9:34 am

    Pre-race, at the handing out of race numbers, Scott and a few others were overheard talking about how they would try to break the course record. He mentioned on his blog about his ‘lowest ever starting number’ for an ultra marathon (as if he was not being given his due). And then yes, this blog talking about USA vs Europeans and all the comments as the race was followed live made me ill to read, I have to say. I am sorry - but who has the chip on their shoulder here? Who made this a USA vs. Europeans race to start with? It was not me.

63. Brennen Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 10:25 am

    Samantha says:

    “Pre-race, at the handing out of race numbers, Scott and a few others were overheard talking about how they would try to break the course record.”

    Why wouldn’t that be their goal? You can respect the course and what it demands and still aspire to breaking the course record.

    Samantha says:

    “He mentioned on his blog about his ‘lowest ever starting number’ for an ultra marathon (as if he was not being given his due).”

    Actually it was the highest number he’d ever received in an ultra. You read it that he was claiming he was not getting his due; I read it that he’d never been in an ultra with enough participants to print starting numbers into the thousands.

    Brennen

64. Markus Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 11:09 am

    Thanks for your comments Samantha,

    as a German ultrarunner now living in the Rockies
    I am not used to the pacing part in the 100 Mile races.
    In Europe this would be considered cheating, since only racers with a starting number can pace others.

    In Leadville I figured out myself that running without an pace or a big crew makes a big time difference at the finishline.
    Maybe this was the part the US boys were not used to.

    I met Karl and Scott and they seemed not arrogant at all.
    But I think Karl mentioned the 16h mark could be smashed.
    So I think Karl thought they can pull that off ( And I thought that as well)

    I didn’t know Marc Olmo, but I know Jens Lukas and he is one of the best 24h racers in the world and by far the best German runner for a good decade.

    But thats Ultrarunning: You have to make it to the finish line first.
    And its allways a long way to go.

    All have a good week
    Markus

65. Jeff Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 11:30 am

    Samanta you have worked yourself into a frenzy over nothing. Scott didn’t say anything arrogant in his blog you just misinterpreted what he said. You are looking for controversy where none exist. And what exactly did Karl and Hal or the other american men do that was arrogant?

    The post race dinner sounds like ones I have been to over here in the states. I’ve never been to a post race dinner that was not low key. However many of us americans are not sophisticated enough to say ‘bon appetite’, you have me there. Treating the last place person as a hero is not unique to Europe. Every race I’ve been in the last place person was treated as a hero for gutting it out. I have not witnessed any grandstanding at races either. Guess I’m not sure why you even brought this stuff up.

66. Scott Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Quite a cross section of posters. Different nationalities, elite and not-elite runners, college runners and not-college runners, hillbillies and not-hillbillies, Elvis, and apparently the rich and not so rich. All runners though and that’s pretty cool.

67. WSG Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    you gotta love free speech!!

68. Samantha Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 6:26 pm

    Fast Eddy - Correction. As stated in my comment earlier - Nikki Kimball was the first American to cross the finish line.

    Not only did she cross as the first woman, but also as the first American. She is the American hero of the race if you want to make it into that sort of a thing.

    Interesting to me that she is a girl and her name was overlooked in your search for ‘first American finisher’ even though I mentioned it earlier, and so far no other guy here has bothered to correct you on your mistake. But then what would American guys care about defending a girl who beat the pants off of them anyhow?

    Yes, I am sure I did misread Scott’s blog (re: the race number thing). Point taken.

    Simply please go and re-read the first paragraph of this blog post that we are all commenting on - and you should see exactly what I mean by arrogance or attitude issues.

    We have here one of the top USA runner’s friends calling ‘everyone else’ outside of Americans in the race “Crafty Europeans” and framing the race as US vs Europe and as well mentioning how they (Americans) are there to ’steal the show’?

    So just where exactly does that xenophobic term about “crafty europeans” come from? And what’s’ with framing the race as USA vs. Europe like we have nationally sponsored ultra running teams or something? (Europe not even being a nation but whatever).

    Americans have raced in this race (and even placed well) since the first year it was held (Topher Gaylord being 2nd in the 2003 race, and an American woman winning as the first woman in 2003) and there should have been plenty of people who spoke English to ask what the course was like if anyone bothered to look or have a Google at past events and wanted to get some ‘local knowledge’. It is also a race held on one of the most highly travelled walking paths in Europe. There are detailed guide books (in English) to the whole trail (which is usually done in 7-10 days).

    Jeff I think you miss my point, which is that what the top Americans did by bragging as they came over that they would set a new course record was not horrible in and of itself - if they could do it, great and more power to them of course. I was directly challenged about anyone from the US bragging and being arrogant (as if nothing had been said that could possibly be misconstrued as boastful). So I mentioned it.

    Now that I do mention someone talking in public about how they will break the record, I am told it was not bragging but a ‘personal goal’. Well come on. Get real. Of course it’s a brag. Having a personal goal is well – personal. Piping on about it for all the world to hear is another thing generally called boasting. Even if you are good.

    When you are new in town and have never run the course before, and then brag about how great you are in a public place for others to overhear — and then don’t finish and are not injured? Well of course you might have a few people posting blog comments about it. You set yourself up for it! Don’t act all innocent and surprised about that – you’d make the same critique thing if French guys came to the Western states and were picking up their race numbers and getting together and talking about walking all over the record there like it was nothing — and then dropped out half way around too because their legs were not ‘100%’.

    It simply looked like they were too egotistical to be seen getting beaten after the earlier statements about record breaking. That’s what it looks like from over here especially after the blog posts we read - and especially as all 3 ‘top American men’ all did the same thing.

    Then add to that the online blog whining about the course being hard and how you could not have pacers, and how it was all dark and steep and that their might be ‘unwritten rules’ or double standards – well it just sounds whiny and like excuse making.

    Jeff - I pointed out the way that the French view the last place finishers, and what the dinner was like (and the potential absence of the top US runners at said dinner) to make a point that really they are not ‘crafty Europeans’ and that there is no ‘media frenzy’ here as some have stated - not that it was ’so sophisticated’ or cloyingly sweet - but that it was JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RACE you’ve been to and is not the way some blog about it like it’s some Martian culture that is so different from your own.

    And by the way - Dawa Sherpa said ‘bon appetite’ because he speaks French as his main 2nd language, and frankly because that’s just a common courtesy phrase here – my point was that he was outgoing and friendly - not that he’s trying to be sophisticated. French just happens to be the language we speak here in France, you know. Go have your ‘freedom fries’ somewhere else with that side order of humble pie.

    Here - before the race the small French ultra running sports press printed an article which looked at Scott and Karl with respect as very good trail runners who were coming here, and who were actually favored to win the UTMB race and their previous long list of wins were mentioned with nothing but admiration in the article.

    Maybe some of you need some therapy yourselves to understand why you need to cling to the stars and stripes so tightly instead of using your own personal self-confidence when either watching or running races in Europe.

69. Fast Eddy Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Screen name “Samatha” this is screen name “Fast Eddy”

    Did I read somewhere in your doctoral thesis about living in France because of Bush?? Naw - you don’t have a chip on your shoulder at all, do you??

    You do realize we are talking about running here, don’t you?? Just plain ‘ol simple running…..

70. American men schooled at the Ultra Tour du Mont-Blanc | Trail Running Blog Says:
    August 27th, 2007 at 10:53 pm

    […] Well, well looks the American men were schooled in ultra running european style at the Ultra Tour du Mont-Blanc. I watched the posts on the Wasatch Speed Goats on the USA vs Europe hype and I was just hoping they would be schooled. Well actually I kind of knew they would be I spent some time in Chamonix this summer and saw some pretty amazing athletes I knew the it would not be easy to simply smash records and go for podium placements… Congratulations to American Nikki Kimball for her amazing performance and to Marco Olmo the 59 year old winner!!! […]

71. Julian Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 3:48 am

    On Scott’s blog he suggests that the top runners had pacers and were cheating. In the case of Nicholas Mermould could someone explain how he was paced if he was in the lead on his own for 133km before finally finishing third?
    I feel it might be better that he admits that he underestimated the course and the quality of the European runners. We’ll see what happens next year.

72. Shocked Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 6:00 am

    Wow…you are all spending too much time writing and bagging all of this UTMB stuff. Just mellow out and sign up for the race in 2008 and come over to Chamonix and do it. It is a great experience. You will see for yourself maybe why they stopped. It is a tough trail and just to finish is a proud result wether you are in the top 10 or the last to finish!

    Okay maybe the “boys” under estimated the difficulty of the trail and also the level of competetion.

    I think they will be back for revenge to redeem themselves to the course and the “euros”. If they do come back I am sure they will not be at Hardrock just before.

    It was too bad they stopped because the event needs a new winner not a 59 yr old italian. (again) Yes, 59…crazy!

    Also you might not understand the difficulties in running a 100 miler in a foreign counrty. Not only do you have the challenge of the course but you have to battle jet lag, diet change, language and culture differnces. Not easy. And this race starts at 6:30 pm with 2,700 people and runs into towns with 10,000 people cheering you on like the tour de france. It is a whole new level to ultras. Nothing like a 100 miler in the US. It is so much fun and full of continuous energy.

    Come expereeince it yourself!

    Top American Finisher of the 86km

73. Karl Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 7:17 am

    Ok Samantha, you are now the most popular writer at our website, thank you for the publicity. I will be brief now and will write a real post later, but here is our rundown. (1) Scott and I never made this a Euro vs. American race, that was the ultrarunning community itself. (2) When we mentioned the course record, let’s remember that this is a different course than previous years meaning the winner is the course record holder. (3) I felt pretty good coming over there and felt I had a chance to win, however, my quads pretty much seized at 123km and I made a strong effort to still finish but decided I did not want to walk for 12 hours over 18 miles, it just was not worth my time. It was my 5th 100 mile race in 4 1/2 months, I have proved in the past this has not affected me, this time it may have, who knows? But now excuses on that, I gave it what I had. (4) and lastly for now, not many people may know this but we sat down with the race directors the day before and discussed the rules so we would not do anything to jeopardize us being disqualified, that being said, the race starts and as I was running in the front of the race most of the day, I was slightly frustrated seeing many switchbacks being cut when the race was clearly marked to go a different way, I saw the winner have a pacer in two places, I saw a number of times a few of the leaders accept aid OUTSIDE of the aid station. If you go to the rules about the race, ALL three of these rules I listed were broken all day long by French, German, Italian lead runners and it was lame to see that.. Perhaps this is why drug testing exists so much in Europe and other countries outside of Europe…its cheating! Here in the USA we dont cheat. Oh, yah, as far as pacers, I dont use them so I am moot on that one. I dont think pacers should be allowed in any races, I agree with Europe on that one. And Samantha, relax, I got to run all day long in the Alps, who can complain about that. 0 scrapes for cheating, 10 scrapes for and awesome course. Wahsatchspeedgoat

74. Brennen Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 7:34 am

    Samantha says:

    “Now that I do mention someone talking in public about how they will break the record, I am told it was not bragging but a ‘personal goal’. Well come on. Get real. Of course it’s a brag. Having a personal goal is well – personal. Piping on about it for all the world to hear is another thing generally called boasting. Even if you are good.”

    You originally said the Americans were talking about how they were going to *try* to break the record. Your claim here is something else entirely, as now you’re saying you heard they proclaimed they *would* break it. Which is it? Because my response to the latter would be very different.

    I don’t agree with you on the boasting part. Simply put: Can you really boast or brag about something before you’ve even done it?

    Look, I’m not flying my flag here. And I respect you for sticking to your guns. Just keep your story straight.

    Brennen

75. Deraj Says:
    August 28th, 2007 at 11:52 pm

    I just wanted to point out what an arrogant ass Scott Jurek is:

    from scottjurek.com….

    “what a fantastic experience! I would highly recommend this event for the course is fantastic with its beauty and ruggedness. The support and volunteers along the way are outstanding. The French and other European runners are incredibly strong and talented. And I’m sure anyone who’s run one of our low key ultras in the States would get an extreme thrill out of standing at a starting line with over 2,000 other runners in Chamonix, running through the streets lined with thousands of cheering spectators, into aid stations and through towns with the same. It’s like the Tour de France, a large party out there, literally! It’s an incredible production. The race organizers put on an amazing event! Tons of fun! I hope to come back fresh to experience the rest of the course. And the finish line which runs through the town of Chamonix lined with supporters and people in cafes and restaurants watching through the day and night. ”

    I have the utmost respect for Scott and Karl as athletes (as well as everyone else who signed up for UTMB, but since we’re on the topic…), which involves them understanding their underlying motivation behind why they run… and I’m quite certain it is something common to anyone who runs in the mountains. In my interaction and observation of them both they are true ambassadors to the sport, respecting all who show up at the starting line of a beautiful race.

    The trail-running community is small and tight-knit in the U.S.A. and hence the rooting for anyone on the “home team”. Many folks (myself included) from the States don’t know (or didn’t know) the names of the top athletes at UTMB this year, but that certainly doesn’t mean that we do not hold them in the highest regard. If anything, for me it was really exciting to read about a whole bunch of bad-asses that I’ve never heard of before. One really exciting aspect of the ultras that I’ve done in the States is that they are starting to have a larger international presence, and what a neat context to meet people from all over the world. I think that a love for the outdoors is universal and knows no gender or national boundaries. I think trail running can and should be one of the many small things in life that can bring people together, not create division. I don’t believe that anyone reading/posting on this blog has any negative objectives. If it is animosity that fuels you, I suggest looking elsewhere as there are there are far more vicious activities than trail running….

    Right on! to all who laced up for what looks like an incredible race, I hope to have the opportunity to do it someday.

76. Deraj Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 12:04 am

    Another bit of despicable national competitiveness…

    Quoting Scott, “Congrats to my Brazilian friend Valmir Nunes on his record setting win at Badwater. We met in the 2006 Spartathlon and I saw him the day before this year’s Badwater and we exchanged jerseys and autographs. And challenges. I told him, with much respect, that if he breaks my record, I’ll go to Brazil and break his. I think we’ll be competing head to head again soon (Spartathlon 2007???). Looking forward to the challenge of again racing with this great man.:”

77. CoLLeeN Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 6:16 am

    No matter the outcome, I rooted for my Team. What excitement! Thanks for towing the line and giving it your best! Oh, and Colleen is my real name…

78. Maya Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 8:12 am

    Well Karl,
    I have been reading these postings for a while, keeping silent. But now that you start accusing people-including me- for things that are not true, I do not shut my mouth any longer.
    You say:”ALL three of these rules I listed were broken all day long by French, German, Italian lead runners and it …..”
    I was crew to Jens Lukas from Germany, the 2nd in the race in the end. The next German to reach the finish was no “lead runner”, 56th, so you actually are accusing Jens and me of cheating!

    The biggest worry I usually have in crewing, is, that I could by mistake do something, that is against the rules and could lead to the disqualification of Jens! I read the rules very carefully and additionally asked at every aid-station, where I was allowed to be and to assist Jens! Actually at most aid stations the crews were not allowed in the area, where food and drinks were provided for the runners, but before or behind that area, sometimes more or less “outside”.
    Jens has had no pacer, he runs HIS pace in all his races. I was the only crew to him aided a little by the photographers team of a sponsor (these mostly took care of my dog, while I was busy with Jens, and sometimes one of them assisted me)
    For as to cutting the switchbacks, Jens himself will also speak up to this. I know that there are people cutting short the switch-backs. We discussed about the issue already last year, the conclusion was: stick to the marked trail, it is a matter of honesty and also an environmental matter.

    By the way, you have been running far in front of Jens all the time until shortly before Bovine: Champex Lac Meltzer: 15:56h Lukas: 16:46h;
    Bovine Lukas 18:17h, Meltzer 18:20. So you probably have seen Jens only once in the race (exception the start) for a very short time shortly before Bovine! I have not even been near to the aid station of Bovine since I was driving straight from Champex Lac to Trient).
    So I really wonder, what you claim to have seen, regarding Jens and regarding me crewing??

    So, think about what you have written. If you stick to saying, Jens and I, crewing him, were cheating, then I am saying you are a liar!

    And if you have been only saying this thing out into the blue because you have seen someone cheating in the front positions not knowing who he was and from what country, but must have been one ore other European, so lets include German as well, than I must say it is a really ugly thing to write such an accusation, that indicates no person directly, but indirectly drags a honest person’s name in the mud! Sure noone can sue you, you did not speak a name, you just spoke out in general. But I had not been looking in here yet today and we came to know about your saying by the worried question of a German runner. So you make that people with a good reputation have to defense themselves for things they have not done. And I wonder who else of the lead runners would feel the same about it, if he knew?
    This speculation about European honesty in general is so ridicoulous, I do not comment further on it.

    I am sorry, I do not know you and I try to not have any preoccupation about anybody before I know him. But this “blindly” lashing about is neither fair nor does it make you look a good sport.
    I really would like you to clear that. Be fair!

    To the rest of the people writing/reading here:
    Looking from Europe it was funny to see this making up of a concurrence between USA and the Europeans, especially, since many of the people doing so, seemed not to know much about the European runners (e.c. Marco was winner of the UTMB last year and has a history of first places in mountain trail races, did they expect that you usually win just like nothing over here??).
    From the runners’ side I fortunately do/did not see anything of this (up to now and here): At the Spartathlon e.g., it is quite usual that I also help runners without crew in the aidstations, that are arriving before Jens. Perhaps you think how dumb one can be to help the “concurrence”, but I do and Jens fully approves of that, because the runners there feel more like a big family also if they are running “versus” each other. From the Americans we only know Scott. None would have begrudged him his Spartathlon victory last year. Jens is francly saying, that he would not have been able to catch up to him there last year, even if he had not dropped out due to injury. Jens tried to make Scott go on in Courmayeur now. After Scott dropped out Scott and Leah kept following the course and we found them to be friendly as usual at all stations and cheering for Jens (and why should it have been different???).
    We met Leah on the way to the closing dinner. She obviously did not know about it and invited us to join the Americans’ group going out for dinner. We are looking foreward to meeting again in Athens in a few weeks (if the fires there hopefully get stopped and the race takes place).

    At the ceremony the cheering for the first (Marco, an Italian) was much, much louder than for everybody else. This in France, where people are said to be very patriotic, and in a race where a Frenchman was 3rd and where mainly French people attended! The spectators were fair enough, it was amazing how much they appreciated achievement over nationality!!
    This is what I like about our sport (in contrast to team sports like sokker etc), that it brings us together. And I am sad to see, if people try to use it to build up walls!

    Keep on running
    Maya

79. Karl Says:
    August 29th, 2007 at 9:01 am

    Maya, No I did not see Jens all day, except when he blazed by me and asked how I am. He was a gentleman. As far as you saying me using German, again I can not tell nationalities by just looking and I should have left German out of it, I can say I only saw the crewing, cutting from the other two. 1st and 3rd, appologies to Jens on that, I know from Scott that Jens is a nice guy and a super competitor, and certainly one of the best ever. Perhaps I should have used “a few other runners”. I don’t like to be the bad guy here, I would have kept all this shit to myself and maybe a few local friends had it not been started from someone posting something here to start the big fight, I think we should all get over it and go for a run and forget it. Leave the battle back on the trail, next time if we get to race there we can all have fun running through the Alps.
    You sound like my wife, a super crew that help others in need, but always legally. Guten Tag

80. WSG Says:
    September 3rd, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    WOW The end!

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